tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7694733.post2315475055214956652..comments2024-02-24T19:56:15.236-08:00Comments on heckasac: pep talk?becklerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09488884204422943486noreply@blogger.comBlogger58125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7694733.post-51026058561812529592013-08-07T09:55:48.612-07:002013-08-07T09:55:48.612-07:00Good point. Apparently the evidence on whether mor...Good point. Apparently the evidence on whether more police = less crime is not really clear. The research tends to show that more police = less property crime, but it is unclear if more police = less violent crime. Interesting.<br /><br />This meta-study concluded that:<br /><br />"Taken together the studies that have appeared over the last 15 years do indeed suggest that there is a significant negative association between the numbers of police (and/or the number of arrests made) and the level of at least some forms of recorded crime."<br /><br />http://www.academia.edu/796325/Police_numbers_and_crime_rates_-_a_rapid_evidence_review<br /><br />So maybe cuts in police/fire services were bad example but there are lots of other general fund cuts that will occur that will hurt the overall community welfare.<br /><br />KBSKBSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7694733.post-36713099242475350472013-08-07T09:47:09.184-07:002013-08-07T09:47:09.184-07:00Hi everybody!
I said a net positive to the communi...Hi everybody!<br />I said a net positive to the community "in the eyes of the community." I try to avoid discussing this on only economic terms, as there are many things involving public money that I'm in favor of & that do not pay for themselves. As I said before, I am opposed to public money going to a private profitable entity like the NBA, but that's just my opinion. Others may feel differently, including being willing to risk important city services to have an arena. Put it to a vote, with accurate economic info, and I bet it passes, even with the "no" votes from all of us commenting here.Darinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7694733.post-27288891696943604812013-08-07T09:04:21.653-07:002013-08-07T09:04:21.653-07:00Hi Darin!
To pipe in on general fund stuff, am I ...Hi Darin!<br /><br />To pipe in on general fund stuff, am I a bit of a rightie to open another can of worms which is that when police and fire cry about anything getting cut sometimes I think that the city doesn't really need any more police and fire than it has and that we don't need to pay them a lot more? I know I was freaking out when I got mugged but I also understand that even if cops were cruising the neighborhood every night they can't be everywhere and I don't know how the detectives could have solved our case with absolutely nothing to go on. That's not to say I want to publicly finance this! And I am not informed about other general fund cuts that will probably happen.<br /><br />Anyhoo, Field of Schemes has a blog and he posts about our stuff:<br /><br />http://www.fieldofschemes.com/category/nba/sacramento-kings/becklerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09488884204422943486noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7694733.post-5824044899581767972013-08-07T08:43:03.021-07:002013-08-07T08:43:03.021-07:00Darin,
I don't understand how it can have a ne...Darin,<br />I don't understand how it can have a negative economic impact but still be a "net positive for the community."<br /><br />As a sports fan I understand the idea that having a home team and watching them is enjoyable and makes you happy (at least when they are winning). That impact can't really be quantified and it is a positive.<br /><br />But how can an arena have a positive community impact when your police/fire services are cut (leading to an increase in crime/more damaging fires) because the additional revenue collected from the voter approved increase in the sales tax is not available for police/fire services because it is now being used to backfill the 11 million dollars in lost parking revenue and that parking revenue is being used to build an arena which is not open to the public and was created to increase the wealth of team owners and players. And those same team owners and players don't spend their wealth in the community where it is created because most players don't actually live here and neither do the owners.<br /><br />The shit going down in Detroit is beyond insane, a person would think you were joking if you told them a bankrupt city plans to spend $450 million to build a sports stadium.<br /><br />KBSKBSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7694733.post-18487525761683667482013-08-06T21:20:35.899-07:002013-08-06T21:20:35.899-07:00Funny timing, but with what's happening in Det...Funny timing, but with what's happening in Detroit, there's been a similar debate about MI Governor Snyder's statement that the bankruptcy won't stop building a <a href="http://hyperallergic.com/76808/where-is-the-money-detroit-stadium-bonds-and-municipal-funding-for-culture/" rel="nofollow">$450 million stadium</a> for the RedWings (meanwhile the Detroit Institute for the Arts is in danger of being looted). <br /><br />Besides <i>Field of Schemes</i>, there's a Brookings Institute <a href="http://hyperallergic.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Sports-Jobs-Taxes_-Are-New-Stadiums-Worth-the-Cost_-_-Brookings-Institution.pdf" rel="nofollow">report</a> published around the same time with the same conclusion: <br /><br /><i>economic development only occurs when a given development plan materially evolves the local or regional economic landscape in some way — like, say, an art museum, which increases the supply of highly educated and uniquely specialized labor. Sports stadiums, unlike art museums, simply draw a few more jobs from existing economic sectors — unskilled labor, business managers, hospitality, a small medical staff, and so on. </i>Snufkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00399931075547304808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7694733.post-84105753180293979332013-08-06T16:33:21.565-07:002013-08-06T16:33:21.565-07:00A quick Google search brings up the following 5-ye...A quick Google search brings up the following 5-year impact report on the Seattle stadium(s): http://www.seattle.gov/economicdevelopment/pioneer%20square/Stadium%205%20Year%20Impact%20Study%20-%20City%20of%20Seattle.pdf<br />Sorry for the crazy URL. Just google "seattle athletic stadium impact".<br />It shows mixed results, as expected.<br />Again, I'm opposed to public dollars being used for arenas/stadiums, but I bet a majority of voters here will support it, and while it may represent a missed opportunity to make downtown better, I don't think it will make it worse than it already is.Darinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7694733.post-4713384173301845772013-08-06T16:21:27.685-07:002013-08-06T16:21:27.685-07:00I don't think any of the commenters here are c...I don't think any of the commenters here are claiming that there will be a positive economic impact. Whether or not it will be a "net positive for the community" is a different question entirely. Field of Schemes deals primarily with economic impact. It IS possible for an arena to have negative economic impact while still being an overall positive for the community, in the eyes of the community. Whether or not that will happen here depends on the actual plans put into place.<br />The Downtown Plaza is totally sad now. I visited Arden Fair last weekend (for the first time in many years) and found it totally busy. It is a shame that Westfield gave up on Downtown Plaza.Darinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7694733.post-9025807393830342252013-08-06T15:57:36.399-07:002013-08-06T15:57:36.399-07:00Hey I'll be happy if any of these projects act...Hey I'll be happy if any of these projects actually happen. But I doubt it will have anything to do with the new arena. Generally arenas follow development, development doesn't follow an arena. It will be a dead zone, it is a large 10 story concrete structure being set down in the middle of downtown between the river and downtown that no one can enter without first paying. Sort of the antithesis of a mall.<br /><br />Jamattack: I think you are making my point, the Seattle arena area was exciting during a game, but go there any other day and things probably aren't that exciting. I'm all for infill but it needs to be the right kind.<br /><br />And just be to be clear it undisputed in the field of economics that arenas DO NOT lead to economic development and ARE NOT a net positive for a community. If private developers were paying for it that would be fine, but its not okay when Sacramento city residents are forced to pay. And yes, bonding out parking is a cost to the people of Sacramento.<br /><br />Field of Schemes is a great resource for information on arena impacts.<br /><br />KBS/anonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7694733.post-41156724316822600592013-08-06T15:57:13.384-07:002013-08-06T15:57:13.384-07:00The elephant collection is gone. Even the sock sto...The elephant collection is gone. Even the sock store closed down. The sports store doesnt even sell licensed merchandise (just Chinese bootlegs). Even the "worst Carl's jr ever" left years ago. Its sad that the place i buy stuff most often in the mall is Panda Express.<br /><br />I'm looking forward to the arena construction since I work near by and can watch. Also it sets up the eventual battle of Slamson in a toga vs a yeti.<br /><br />-NinjaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7694733.post-31284663174407769432013-08-06T15:03:37.315-07:002013-08-06T15:03:37.315-07:00@anon: I would make the point that all of San Jose...@anon: I would make the point that all of San Jose is best to be avoided, but that is neither here nor there. I went to a Seahawks game in Seattle a few years ago and it was crazy fun. The arena is surronded by bars and restaurants and on game day people dressed like yeti's. What more do I need to say?<br />Also I don't really give a hoot about the arena, but I would really appreciate some infill. I'm pretty sure the mall just exists now to house someone's elephant collection.<br />As an experiment I did walk to old sac this afternoon to see if it was as I remembered in terms of lunch options. It was. But I did get some hokey pokey. It was ok. Too much chocolate, not enough pokey.<br />jamattack!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7694733.post-37978740880192150562013-08-06T14:48:01.467-07:002013-08-06T14:48:01.467-07:00Back in the boom years plans were floated for a wi...Back in the boom years plans were floated for a wide overpass, with a full-scale park on top, connecting Old Sad with Downtown Sad.<br />I doubt a downtown arena will create a huge dead zone, as it will still be surrounded by downtown. It couldn't be any more dead in the evenings than the downtown plaza is now. And as soon as the new arena plans were announced, the owner of the building with that shoe store in the very front of the plaza decided to put a restaurant/bar in that space (it's not actually Downtown Plaza property). And work started moving forward on the big hole in the ground on K between 8th & 9th, and the building at 9th/K (across from RiteAid) sold. So the arena plans created optimism & excitement in the developer community, and getting those projects done will be good for downtown regardless of what the arena itself does.<br />I don't really care one way or the other, but I bet that if voters are given a choice, even if they fully understand that the arena will cost a ton of taxpayer money that won't come back again, they'll still vote for the arena. It's a bummer to see public funds going to something as massively profitable as the NBA, but I do think most Sacto voters would be okay with it.Darinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7694733.post-7102952131534891562013-08-06T14:39:57.079-07:002013-08-06T14:39:57.079-07:00the mayor has rebranded it "old sad"the mayor has rebranded it "old sad"becklerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09488884204422943486noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7694733.post-2758727167076553542013-08-06T14:20:01.683-07:002013-08-06T14:20:01.683-07:00LOL at "Old Sad"LOL at "Old Sad"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7694733.post-76844572827396444072013-08-06T13:16:32.463-07:002013-08-06T13:16:32.463-07:00you'd have to tear down the freeway to reconne...you'd have to tear down the freeway to reconnect old sad. personally i'd like to build a time machine and stop them from razing most of old sac to do it.<br /><br />i think jamattack means the redevelopment in general not the arena specifically<br /><br />are we going to lose our downtown chain theater for years because of this? that would make me sad. i see most of my movies there. we have way less screens in our downtown core than even a tiny town like davis.becklerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09488884204422943486noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7694733.post-60307769422378433502013-08-06T13:00:36.986-07:002013-08-06T13:00:36.986-07:00adk: People forget that Downtown Plaza actually us...adk: People forget that Downtown Plaza actually used to be a decent mall, full of stores, until Westfield gave up on it and decided to focus on Arden Fair and let Downtown Plaza slowly die.<br /><br />Here are some ideas: use the arena money to tear down the mall and reconnect downtown and old Sacramento, create housing in the downtown plaza, etc. There are lots of things that can be done that are all better than an arena.<br /><br />Jamattack: I don't really understand why a monolithic arena is seen as a better option than a mall if you are looking for lunch? You can't go in the arena, there won't be any stores in the arena, so what will it be adding? People like to claim there will be development around the arena, where exactly? I have been to a number of arena districts and their defining factor is the amount of deadspace they create. Do a quick street view around the San Jose Arena and you will notice there is no development around it. If you go over there when a game isn't happening you could hear a pin drop because there are so few people in the around.<br /><br />Would you rather stare at a giant concrete wall or have a mall you can actually go into and walk around?<br /><br />I don't think the concept is much different from the idea that large office buildings with no housing don't create night life because everyone leaves at 5.<br /><br />anonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7694733.post-29314284591940786362013-08-06T12:24:59.769-07:002013-08-06T12:24:59.769-07:00Jamattack-great point. Just because I work in Davi...Jamattack-great point. Just because I work in Davis and have to eat horrible horrible food you should not have to. That Strings Express story is very sad.becklerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09488884204422943486noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7694733.post-42822933636292288962013-08-06T11:40:38.649-07:002013-08-06T11:40:38.649-07:00As someone who works by Amtrak and has off and on ...As someone who works by Amtrak and has off and on for years and will probably continue to do so until I die I would LOVE to see anything happen down here that would give me a reason to go out at lunch. Do you know the other day I tried to go to Strings Express and it was closed? So I thought Lotus, also closed. And I was bummed cos these are my best options down here. And that is very sad. I love Senor Burrito but he always runs out so early. Sure I can walk further and find more stuff but I don't always have the time, or desire to get sweaty or rained on depending on the time of year.<br />In my own selfish way I'm kind of excited to see what they do with the rail yard. Atleast I'll have something new to look at.<br />jamattack!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7694733.post-81501693153817908442013-08-06T11:11:55.415-07:002013-08-06T11:11:55.415-07:00Anon,
I don't have a strong love for the are...Anon, <br /><br />I don't have a strong love for the arena but there isn't much happening at that Downtown Plaza space. What alternative to you really, truly see happening and who would fund it? Isn't it already a deadzone? Is that guy's collection of elephants still in an empty store space? For me that was equal parts rad and depressing. <br /><br />When I moved back to Sac nine years ago, I attended a "charrette" where we the attendees discussed what to do with K Street. It was exciting at the time to feel like we, as citizens, were able to lend our voices to what should happen there. But nine years later it mostly looks the same, but with cars on K Street and the addition of a couple more eateries I like. I feel like I was being naive thinking our discussion could produce change without having the big bucks to see our ideas come to fruition. <br /><br />-adkAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7694733.post-72935793862970940482013-08-06T09:23:06.423-07:002013-08-06T09:23:06.423-07:00Hey Nick,
Apologies, I just assumed you were the o...Hey Nick,<br />Apologies, I just assumed you were the other Nick.<br /><br />And "new, well thought out residential/retail/cultural projects" are not and will never be "part of the greater arena development picture." That's why we really need a serious public debate about the arena not just the cheerleading crap you get from the Bee/News10, etc. My hope is that by forcing a vote that discussion will have to happen.<br /><br />AnonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7694733.post-60468853374361874042013-08-05T15:49:28.019-07:002013-08-05T15:49:28.019-07:00I used to love the chicken soup with flour tortill...I used to love the chicken soup with flour tortillas at the old luis'becklerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09488884204422943486noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7694733.post-58355444066738242962013-08-05T15:16:31.027-07:002013-08-05T15:16:31.027-07:00Hey there Anonymous,
I'm not Nick from the SNR...Hey there Anonymous,<br />I'm not Nick from the SNR, so I guess I don't really have any reason to know better.<br /><br />My hope is that new, well thought out residential/retail/cultural projects are part of the greater arena development picture. Honestly, I don't know if they are - just my hope. What I do know, is that Downtown Plaza is pretty sad.<br /><br />And, Beth, as for Luis Jr's it's the same exact food Luis's had years ago. I stand by the tortillas and staight chili as one of my the best affordable dishes in town. The rest fo the menu, I probably only like for nostalgias sake thinking back to when I could stuff my face there for $2.95 as a poor college student.Nickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17601533055126653022noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7694733.post-59865933888461902132013-08-05T09:20:08.735-07:002013-08-05T09:20:08.735-07:00Nick,
What are you talking about re: the arena? Wh...Nick,<br />What are you talking about re: the arena? What makes you think it will be a positive in any way? Visit any cities "arena district," they are deadzones, arenas kill development. Development relies on real people living in an area, not 9-5 workers and 7-10 sports fans. At least 9-5 workers leave the office to spend money.<br /><br />You really should know better working for SNR.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7694733.post-48251466664612069302013-08-03T11:18:52.678-07:002013-08-03T11:18:52.678-07:00I just want to know why the mayor won't get hi...I just want to know why the mayor won't get his dead front tooth fixed.<br /><br />JennyoJennyohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13087438277151124741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7694733.post-20340766093592654172013-08-02T22:19:43.935-07:002013-08-02T22:19:43.935-07:00I appreciated it too, Nick. (I feel like this is a...I appreciated it too, Nick. (I feel like this is a secret blog.) I think Farm-to-Fork is still figuring out its identity and it would be awesome if the movement can continue to address local food deserts. <br /><br />adk<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7694733.post-67903478110127130612013-08-02T13:41:52.817-07:002013-08-02T13:41:52.817-07:00Thanks Nic, that was an epic well thought out pep ...Thanks Nic, that was an epic well thought out pep talk. <br /><br />I appreciated it. <br /><br />-Natalie.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com