Tuesday, February 20, 2007
more feedback?
Although it doesn't single me out specifically (I will place myself under the category of "unidscerning" reviews) this latest yelp of Midtown Monthly hurts. I appreciate that someone paid enough attention to write a detailed review. Before I ever wrote any food criticism I remember drunkenly begging JD (who was the current reviewer at the time) to write a proper trashing of Tower Cafe, but now I know that I would never have the courage to do anything like that because of the (in my case) small chance that people involved with the restaurant would see it. I get around that quandary by mostly writing up places that I already know that I like, so I'm more of a booster than a critic, really. I'm just thinking out loud, here, but I'm wondering if anyone else has thoughts on Midtown Monthly.
Don't let this review hurt you or take it personally. The writer was trying to be sincere and offered what he believes is constructive criticism (or so it seems), most likely to try to help the magazine, which he said he liked overall, rather than to bash it.
ReplyDeleteIt's completely normal and expected that it will take new publications some time to get everything right. It's extra difficult when the staff is working either for free or for not much, and in addition to whatever they are doing in their lives.
Either way though anything that is put out into the world is subject to opinion (as I'm sure you've experience with this blog). If you believe that what he says is legit, then all you can do is try to make it better. If you don't, then don't worry about it. Not everyone is going to like it or anything else, for that matter. At least this guy didn't say something like "this mag sux."
The grammatical errors should be fixed though.
i think the content is good but the writing is inconsistent. some of the articles read very well. some of them seem like they were lifted from e-mails and barely scanned for typos or grammatical errors. but, that can be shaped up if MM finds someone who has the time to copy edit and help the writers really nail down what they're trying to say.
ReplyDeletei'd also like to see a bit more artistry in the design and layout. i do appreciate minimalism but maybe someone could work to spice it up a bit? the colors are great, however. two thumbs up.
also, i noticed that the responses to the letters in the back of the zine had a bit of a snarky tone to them. or maybe i was misreading them. i'd suggest either not responding to the printed letters and letting them stand alone or keeping the responses somewhat more diplomatic. or, if you want a snarky tone (because it can be fun to read), then fuck my suggestion.
anyhow, i think all of you are doing a good job and should keep at it.
were there many typos or grammar shenanigans in the latest issue? I volunteered to proofread and *thought* I caught most of that shite. But then, i never did finish that English degree. Anyway, I'm absolutely CERTAIN that there were no typos in Maakies....
ReplyDeleteYeah - they are still there. It's a lot better than it was (as far as punctuation, spelling, grammar goes) which is a good sign, but there's still problems.
ReplyDeleteYou are absolutely correct about Maakies, however!
I still haven't even read Midtown Monthly because I haven't been able to find it :(
ReplyDeleteHowever; for someone who bitches and moans so much about stylistic, grammar and spelling errors, his yelp as at least 6 grammatical errors (including missing entire words) and 1 glaring stylistic error. Or in his words, "stylistic inelegance". (He repeats the word 'out' twice in close proximity which reads awkwardly.) So, you know. Take what he says with a grain of salt. He's yelping, so is clearly not a professional anyhow.
I've only seen mdm once, so I shouldn't really judge it. However, I'd probably agree with the people who say it is not entirely professional, that it errs on the side of amateurism.
ReplyDeleteBut why is this so bad? The pros often produce sterile and derivative work, because they are too cowardly or hidebound to try anything new. Being sloppy and funky doesn't necessarily mean one will produce new and interesting work. that's true. but i'm glad not everything here is as clean-cut as the bee or sacto magazine.
I'll even go one step further and personalize this opinion of mine.
Scott S - you all know who I mean - use to to put out this political zine thing. It was just three or four sheets of photocopied ranting about why sacramento should ban leafblowers and whatnot. He'd ride around on his bike and drop it off at the cafes and the co/op. It was the most punk rock/paul goodmanesque broadsheet one could imagine: the paragraphs all crooked, typos for days. but i found it an incredibly inspiring thing. Here this guy was writing what he wanted and publishing it himself. This was before blogs. Zines had been around forever, of course, but I was hayseed and didn't think someone in little old sacramento could do such a thing. I'd go into time tested books and try to talk to scott, because I was so inspired. that was not easy to do, because scott had this scowl that could actually burn flesh, and needless to say he thought I was a creep. But eventually scott soften up and let me publish a couple articles in his zine. Since then, I've published a few things in more respectable outlets, and I've even been paid. But nothing has ever compared to seeing my byline in that crappy little zine.
mdm could perhaps have the same effect on another. who knows.
Heckasac, as I often say, for someone who's very funny and smart, you have a thin skin.
ReplyDeleteI read the review and don't see anything that you should take personally. I only read the review once so maybe I missed something.
MM needs help and one of you should email that guy and ask him for help.
omf,
ReplyDeletei'm going to take back "typos" because i can't recall anything specific. i thought your article on gay outlaw was fantastic, btw. i'll look MM over again and try to be more specific about what i was feeling when last i flipped through it. i agree with jeff that "amateurish" isn't bad. maybe it's that some sections feel very professional and some feel very seat-of-the-pants. which might not even be a problem if that's what you're aiming for. i certainly wouldn't want MM to sacrifice any of it's honesty for pristine copy. anyhow, i'll stop here because now i feel like i should really go back and look at it again before i make any more comments about MM. and mostly i want to congratulate you all on getting it printed and out there--something my slacker ass probably wouldn't have even accomplished.
I've never read the magazine -- you don't distribute in Lowell, MA. And the yelper's complaints may well have some merit. I read the yelp review, and the dude sounded like someone i should listen to: He's down with the project, wants discerning reviews, and expects good writing. cool.
ReplyDeleteBut notice what he doesn't do: He never gives an example of a bad review or inelegant prose. I'm wary of anybody who gets that worked up about grammar. There's so much bad grammar advice out there and so many people taking weird glee in "correcting" perfectly good English. The grocery stores around here now have signs saying "14 items or fewer." I know somebody looked at the old, perfectly good "14 items or less" sign, remembered an oversimplified and incorrect guideline about how to use 'less' and 'fewer' and made them change.
Anyhow, the point is: Dude's criticism might be on, but he also might be the sort of douche who thinks you can't split infinitives and whatnot. Since he doesn't go into detail, it's hard to tell. A parallel point goes for his criticism criticism. Is this guy discerning? Maybe, but it's hard to tell.
Dave-I do not have a thin skin, I was stoked that someone took the time to pay attention and criticize, but I read his other yelps and he seems pretty right on so it hurt a bit because I think his opinion is valid.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the amateur issue, I'm not interested in writing a pro-style restaurant critic-type column. I want it to be informal so I guess that can be interpreted as amateurish. Not that he aimed that directly at me, I'm aiming it at myself. I guess I'm ok with that. You can call it whatever you want, just don't call it snarky!
JB-the Finches are playing in MA for a couple dates! You should go and say hey for me!
http://www.finchesmusic.com/html/tour.html
And I just saw from this site that news dates have been added and they're playing in Big Sur in April at the Henry Miller library! I am so there.
hmmm. I guess I don't know my grammar as well as i thought I did.
ReplyDeleteLurch- would you mark up a copy of the current issue with grammar goofs and drop it off next time you're in the office?
I think a lot of comments that make me think, "WTF" at first are often valid. Same as you said.
ReplyDeleteI often try make self-corrections (slow as it may be). I'm not as "interesting" as I was in my 20s, but I'm a lot easier to get along with.
But I'm a freak and like criticism more than compliments.
Off to a job interview.
Jeff writes:
ReplyDelete"Here this guy was writing what he wanted and publishing it himself. This was before blogs. Zines had been around forever, of course, but I was hayseed and didn't think someone in little old sacramento could do such a thing."
--------------------------
So you thought the people of Sacramento were incapable of wielding a No. 1 X-Acto blade and gluestick (stolen from Kinkos) and pushing the button on a Xerox machine? You shoulda hung out at the 24 hour Kinkos on J Street (RIP). There were all kinds of zines being run off and collated by night owls. Thanks for the free copies, Smif...
Love,
samizdat
OMF - if I have time, yeah, I'll do that. Maybe if I'm bored while the movies are playing on Sunday or something. Like I said, it's a lot better than prior issues. I don't think I stressed "a lot better" enough in my prior post. As I recall, it's mostly still punctuation issues, rather than grammar - well, glaringly bad grammar, anyway, as that is all I'd really look for/notice in a pub like this - prior issues were rife with misspellings and glaringly bad grammar - to the extent that some sentences made no sense. The current ish is a lot better, but the punctuation could definitely still use some work - again, not at all like it was, though. Also, a final edit after it's been in production would be a good idea if it's not happening - I seem to recall that at least one error had the look of happening during the production process - just an educated guess based on my experience of some of the types of text errors that can crop up during layout.
ReplyDeleteAs the author of the review in question, I want first to apologize if there were hurt feelings. That certainly was not my intention: I am a graduate student, and am used to getting reamed (and I mean REAMED) by my advisor, my colleagues, reviewers at journals, and even complete strangers at conferences.
ReplyDeleteMy work is consistently subjected to the most painful criticisms, and this has left me somewhat anesthetic to the effects of critique. A friend, fellow yelper, and heckasac devotee recently chastised me for the harshness of my review, and I was forced to agree: my review of MM definitely reads a bit more harshly than I intended, and I will amend it as soon as I'm done grading midterms (if you really want to see harsh criticism, give these a look :-)).
I looked over the discussion thread, and I am very pleased that you think I'm "right on" with some of my reviews. I hope you do trash Tower Cafe, and soon--I can't wait to read it. The critical reviews are, in my opinion, always more interesting and more fun to read. I, like you, take critical activity seriously, and treat yelp as an outlet for my residual (and sometimes overzealous) critical energy. I write them for myself more than anyone else, and forget that someone might be reading.
Let me reiterate that mine is a lover's disappointment. I'm only frustrated because I like the idea of MM so much, and because I know it could be so much better with just a bit more attention to detail. I realize many are volunteering their limited time and energy, and please know that I am not unsympathetic to that.
As it happens, I did amend the rather awkward syntax in the first paragraph of my review, which one discussant complained about. You were right, anonymous: that sentence was indeed "stylistically inelegant." Thanks for the suggestion.
And a very lovely comment from the yelper. Soon, he'll start writing for MM to help improve it!
ReplyDeleteWow, big ups to Heckasac for saving us all that money we were going to spend on focus groups. Now perhaps we can use that money for a copy editor!
ReplyDeleteI've read a lot of the comments about the magazine, and I think a lot of what has been said is fair.
All I can say is, I'm glad that we have created something that is worthy of discussion. I think this blog in general, and this thread, shows that all of us want something that gives us a forum for what's going on in our community, and hopefully gives us some insight into something we didn't know about. That's the point of community journalism -- to shine a spotlight on the cool shit that we can't wait to tell other people about.
I know Becky's food reviews do that, perhaps better than any other part of Midtown Monthly. Hopefully, if we do our job, we can bring that same passion to the other parts of the mag.
Midtown Monthly is largely a labor of love. All of us who are involved in the magazine have full time jobs doing something else. That may explain some of the copy editing snafus. I don't mean that as an excuse, just an explanation. But hopefully, if we're doing our job, the love of the stuff we're writing about shows through, copy editing mistakes and all.
That said, I for one am always looking to improve the mag. I know there are things that can be better -- and not just making sure the comma is inside the quotation marks. So, please, if there's an artist, musician, restaurant -- anything -- that needs some local love, please let us know. And we're always looking for writers. You won't get rich writing for us, but hopefully, there will be some other form of psychic compensation. And who knows? We may even spell your name right...
MM may want to head down to Hina's Tea on K Street. It's next to True Love, and across from GB. It just opened and should be around for a long time. They deserve some free pub, because they went all out on the interior space. Don't miss the bathroom. As always, I'll be reading...and carefully :)
ReplyDelete