You guys should read Nilesh's comment on the last post. D.P. had asked me if he could publicly comment on this incident and I asked him not to because I felt that Heckasac wasn't really the correct forum for it and I encouraged him to talk to the involved parties directly if he felt that strongly about it. But I like and respect Nilesh and since he and Sandra were the directly injured parties I respect his right to post what he did. It was an ugly incident (I of course slept through the whole thing) that marred a party that was otherwise chock full of good vibes. There was drunkeness and confusion because it all happened around 300 am, so I wasn't sure exactly what had happened but the whole thing sucked and I would hate for the result to be Nilesh feeling uncomfortable anywhere he chooses to go in Sac. If anyone from Fools would like to comment this would probably be a good time to do it. And I have to say that in addition, everyone I've talked to about the upcoming Abu Ghraib musical that was mentioned in the Bee article has expressed trepidation about how it will be handled. Of course, that's just incidental to what happened at the party, but Nilesh brought it up and I'd have to second his concern.
I must add that I feel a little queasy letting someone be called out by name on this, especially someone who I barely know. You may recall that last year I told about a local DJ who had used a racial slur and had been fired from his night at the Press Club. I didn't use his name (although it wasn't that hard to figure out) because I wasn't sure that it was really my place to fuck with someone like that. I'm not the all-seeing eye of Sauron or anything. You'll have to tell me what you think. And PLEASE, no anonymous comments. Pick a somewhat identifiable nickname if you must, but don't just go off anonymously. If you can't stand behind what you say then don't say it.
Yeah, you should post stuff like this. Sure it's your blog, but most people in the arty world in Sacramento read it. That's why I tried to get you to post something about Jim MacLean's death. It's not just about your life anymore. You're a newsource whether you like it or not.
ReplyDeleteWhen Nilesh emailed his comment to me, I said he should forward it to you to see if you'd post it. I haven't checked your site for a while and I'm guessing he posted it before he read my response.
As one of the witnesses, albeit drunken, to that gnarly incident, I would like to verify that it did go down as Nilesh posted. I have never seen my friends Sandra and Nilesh so upset and I hope I never have to again. What happened happened and I think this is an appropriate forum to discuss something as fucked up as that incident was.
ReplyDeleteBrew
Wow. What an upsetting thing to hear about. Sandra and Nilesh are two of the nicest, most sincere and honest people I know. It makes me sick that some drunk a-hole would say such horrible things. I'm glad that Nilesh put it in the comments. With stuff like that it's probably better to get it out in the open and deal with it. I also didn't know that guy had anything to do with FF so I'm glad I know that now.
ReplyDeleteConnie
I think Nilesh should talk to Eason. It's the only potentially constructive thing that could happen. I'm not boycotting the Fools because they're one of the few places that supports DIY art & music - regardless of race I might add - and I think that, as with most things, there's more to this than the black & white conclusion that Fools is a racist organization. Eason was dead wrong & he was being fucking stupid - but only a civil, sober face-to-face conversation is gonna make any sort of potentially positive change. I may be saying this because I somewhat know Eason & I've alwasy enjoyed his company. I realize that I'm risking some static or dislike from some of my friends by taking this angle, but I believe there's a modern sort of shitty ironic racism that's root isn't in hate but a total lack of understanding & empathy. It sucks but I also don't reserve the same intolerenac & hatred towards it that I would for someone who hates with a capital H. I actually believe that there's room in this sort of instance for people's minds to change when they see the first hand effects of what they've said. Maybe not but it's worth a shot.
ReplyDeletemiller
I got this from sacrag, there's a page on the website for Abu Ghraib the musical (again, seperate from the incident and I'm not saying it is any indication of racist policies at fool's). It says you'll laugh, you'll cry, you'll be nervous. I must say that page does make me hella nervous. That looks really offensive.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.foolsfoundation.org/LUX/projects.htm
Miller: hear, hear. But I think what's constructive for this Nilesh guy might not be what's constructive for this Eason guy. There's no real need for Beckler to have a sit down with the East Sac anti-bike puncher lady, for example. Waaay more offensive, I know, but you get the idea.
ReplyDelete-DMZ
Eason isn't a racist. Sandra and Nilesh are great people.
ReplyDeleteEason needs to lay off the sauce in a big way.
When I last saw the three of them at that party, they were talking about how they had spent Thanksgiving together at a mutual friend's house. It's sad all this happened because you could tell that they all liked each other. There wasn't any hate.
This was not a hate thing, this was a stupid drunk, trying to be funny, not understanding that it's not funny AT ALL thing.
It is awful that S & N were treated like that. Eason tried to say sorry but I think tempers were way too high, on all sides, for that to work just then. Eason should go say sorry, for reals.
There isn't any need to boycott Fools Foundation. Liz is a wonderful woman who works hard for her money, real hard. I don't think it's right to penalize her for the stupid drunken antics of her husband.
Ella
Maybe Eason will think about what he's done now that he'll catch some shit over it. It's like he's wearing a Skrewdriver shirt where he'd hear it explained how screwed it is. "Yeah, but the music is good" doesn't usually last when you think about what it means. It's still a fucked up thing. Ift's no different if someone had said the same thing to Heckasac about being Jewish and asking Miller why he's dating ZOG.
ReplyDeleteOnce I heard, and Sandra told me the whole story. I couldn't really believe anyone could be so fucked up! And to Nelesh he is the nicest guy and Sandra hearing her so distrot made me so angry, I'm angry even now. Yeah you can call it shitty drunkiness, and stupid, that shit is still fucking racist! Inside and out, people should fucking think before they fucking talk! Once you say shit like "punjami fucker" you better expect some fucking repercusion!
ReplyDeleteI think Scott's got a point in that there does seem to be a new smartass 'ironic' racism that is distinctly different from the old timey 'let's kick his ass' type. It's like they think 'if Dave Chappelle can say it, I can say it.' It's still offensive, and incredibly arrogant, but not at the same level as, say, your good old citrus heights skinhead.
ReplyDeleteThat said, i don't know that the offended party is gonna get anything out of sitting down with the FF guy. The FF guy will get a chance to apologize and will probably feel better about it, but honestly, fuck him.
i don't know either of these guys, but I was WAY too close to the aforementioned DJ incident. it sucks to find out that one of your friends is some kind of 19th century bonehead, and it's embarrassing not to have figured it out earlier. As bad as the press club incident was, what made it worse was hearing the guy try to spin the story instead of just admitting that he was drunk, an asshole, and in need of some serious counseling.
The ball is in the FF guy's court. He's been an idiot and it's up to him to try to figure out what made him think that his actions were ok. If he's really a decent guy he'll sort out how to make it right.
I think you mean Punjabi.
ReplyDeleteI'm kidding.
And I'm not a racist either.
I agree with you Anna, completely, Eason should have thought about what he was saying, which clearly he did not. And now that he's made a total ass out of himself, and hurt Sandra and Nilesh, he should expect to have people treat him like a jerk until he proves himself otherwise. His wife however, did nothing and her business (fools foundation) should be left out of this.
I know him, and I like him. I also know Sandra and Nilesh and I think they are wonderful. This whole thing sucks.
Ella
I posted a comment to the item where Nilesh actually commented. I did it anonymous-coward style. So, I will repost in a heroic and courageous fashion here.
ReplyDeleteIt has always impressed me that Sacramento has always been far less the middle-class-suburband-white-guy club than other communities. This has been the case since at least the early 80s. It is also true that there is a bigoted stain that sometimes rises to the surface. I am thinking about the beating death of Mister Wong from Tales of Terror. While the person might not have MEANT for the phrase "dirty Punjabi" to hurt so much, it obviously did. (Punjabi is a language and, I believe a descriptive of folks from a certain region. Any negative connotation gotten from use of the word alone is solely in the mind of the person saying it.) It is really fucked that such words were said. It sort of takes the British idea of "taking the piss" out of someone to a hateful level. If the shit talk had stayed within "acceptable" boundaries (if he'd stuck with making fun of the shirt and tie, for example) there would be no reason for this thread. Words can really hurt. It is something that is easily forgotten.
It is in the hands of the offended party to handle this as they see fit. "To forgive is divine," but I wouldn't expect anyone to forgive anyone if the hurt is such that the offended party can't find it in his or her heart to do so. Even if Nilesh and Sandra were able to shake hands and make nice, they will probably never forget what was said.
Abu Ghraib as a musical doesn't really speak well for the FF, but be aware that raising a stink about this (like a public boycott) will probably only mean more people get interested and fill the seats. (Personally, I have several "private" boycotts going on, some of which are mutual. They work okay for me.)
Ed
Honestly, this reminds me of the same ole bullshit excuses one hears from and about ALOT of people downtown:
ReplyDelete"it was a joke, you should know that"
"he was drunk"
"I'm half [whatever crappy slur you can think of] myself..."
And bringing up bands from over a decade ago to prove that downtown isn't as whitebread as the 'burbs' is really reaching.
I remember being on tour with PS in Eugene, Tristan in tow. After the show we went to the house we were supposed to stay at, as we sit in calm and peace enjoying the night in a new place, somebody puts on Skrewdriver on the stereo, nobody but the people with us even flinched. It was like what they'd want to listen to, even if they were wearing Minor Threat shirts and seeing Bad Brains. Tristan walked over to the stereo, took the tape out, walked to the front door and threw it out into the street. Chaos ensues with excuses abounding about why Skrewdriver was "good" enough for them to listen to. We leave town that night.
See, I appreciate it when somebody stands up like Tristan and Nilesh, I think it's admirable and honorable, even *IF* there's the excuse of "drunken foolery". I've always beleived that sarcasm and humor hide a large percentage of a truth and intent.
James Pope Smasher
Eason was smashed. I bet you he hardly remembers it - if at all. And I agree the ball's in his court but I'm guessing he still has no idea that this conversation is going on because we're all just talking in an internet forum. Maybe I'd feel different if I didn't know him but I guess I'm not ready to say fuck him across the board quite yet. I'd like to hear what he has to say.
ReplyDeletemiller
My two cents:
ReplyDeleteI have no idea who this douche is but if its who I think it is I think I saw him playfully punch a girl in the junk that night so hats off to him. (or if its another dude, hats off to both of them).
Good for Sandra and Nilesh,
fucker deserved what he got. I am so fucking tired of "he/she was drunk" as an excuse. Grow the fuck up, thats all there is to it. I can act a drunk fool but I never go spewing a bunch of shit that is completely out of character for me and then blaming it on the booze. As far as boycotting the fools foundation I never go there anyway due to my advancing age, bedtime, and low tolerence for hipster tomfoolery so not much to boycott there.
Anyway, sorry Sandra and Nilesh, you deserve a whole lot better than that shit.
-Natalie
unable to take a joke?
ReplyDeleteWhat kind of fucking joke is that? Seriously, you are saying that Nilesh is in the wrong because he couldn't laugh that off?
THis point leaves me fucking speechless.
Personally I don't know dude so I am not calling him a full time racist or anything and like I said I don't really go to the FF so me boycotting wouldn't do a thing.
-Natalie
c'mon Natalie... he called the guy a 'dirty Punjabi'. this Eason is obviously a real wit.
ReplyDeleteJames PopeSmasher wrote:
ReplyDeleteAnd bringing up bands from over a decade ago to prove that downtown isn't as whitebread as the 'burbs' is really reaching.
I brought up T of T to illustrate that Sac has long had people involved who are not white males. It is still that way, unless you discount a bunch of bands that have non-white-males playing along and the (admitted "handful" of) "minorities" that come to shows and buy the records and so on. Dunno where that shot came from, but your story about Oregon proves my point. So...if you're going to try tearing apart what I wrote, I suggest you not prove the point you're trying to negate.
Ed
Hey Morgan-
ReplyDeleteEason's your friend and I'm sure you hate to see him get shit for this, but did you seriously mean to write "unable to take a joke"? Seriously? Think about that for a second. Where's the joke there?
Crap...
ReplyDelete"non-white-males"
By that, I intended to include anyone who is not white or male. In other words, I was thinking of bands full of women, bands with guys named Suresh, or Kendon in them. Hell, what about SINS OF THE FLESH or even SURROGATE BRAINS for that matter.
Without yammering on and on, my freaking point, we have a pretty good thing going here that more isolated parts of the nation don't.
Take that, "Wookie" James.
PS: Rock on, Natalie.
Ed
First off Nilesh is a superior Human Being in ways that Esaon probably coulodn't concieve of 2nd, Morgan loyalty to your friends should not cloud yr' head so. Eason is yr' friend but you gotta cop up to yr' friend being a fucking dick. You don't gotta stop being friends with a dick, but don't pretend he's not a dick. He's shown himself to be very unimpressive as a human being in quite a few situations I've seen him involved in, and most human beings impress me alot! What Eason did was terrible and he should be publicly scorned, no doubt. I haven't given anyone the Evil Eye in a while but dude's gonna get it. As for The FF they seem to be heading down a wierd path. I'm glad for the venue and the artists they bring to town, but this Abu Ghraib shit teamed w/ Esaons antics paints an ugly picture of a scene.Liz has always seemed like a nice lady to me ;I'm sorry her baby daddy is a nut. I'm also not sure if his fucked up brain should effect my enjoyment of music. Out of respect for Nilesh and Sandra ,however, I'll refrain for the time being from going.
ReplyDeleteThe question isn't whether the joking was funny, appropriate, acceptable or even a joke at all. Nor is the question :is Eason a dick". The question is does Eason deserve to have the tag 'racist' follow him around for years & years because of this. Because it will. And nobody will be interested in the far-less scandalous story "oh, I guess maybe he's not". By not calling "racist", I'm not refuting anything _ i'm simply waiting to pass judgment until I know more. I remember when riot grrl was in full swing and I heard 'rapist' & 'sexist' thrown around with a near witch-hunt style glee. Sometimes it was appropriate, other times it was dead wrong. Getting tagged like that doesn't just go away so don't take it lightly. It's serious stuff. Call Eason an asshole to his face tonight & I'm totally behind you. Until he apologizes, he deserves it. Maybe you feel he deserves it even if he does apologize. But in my opinion, a real racist won't apologize for their actions because they don't believe they're wrong - so if he decides to talk to Nilesh & try & sort this out - asshole or not - he doesn't deserve "racist" in my opinion. I don't intend to wring that word of it's meaning by throwing it around everywhere. I hope this doesn't come off to Nilesh - who I love - as me thinking what he wrote was wrong. I believe he was offended beyond belief, and apology or not, I would never expect him to give a shit about Eason again - but I'm still going to make up my own mind about Eason, the Fools etc.
ReplyDeletemiller
I'm torn on the boycot. While i don't want to hold liz accountable for her husband's actions, i also don't want nilesh to feel like peeps in sacramento don't care about what happened. because it wasn't an acceptable thing for him to experience. i think it's important to validate nilesh's extreme outrage by making some kind of gesture. so, i think i'll probably stay away from the FF until i hear that eason apologizes or that Nilesh feels like the damage has somehow been rectified. it would be uncaring to abandon Nilesh's hopes that the community stand behind him after he experienced something as fucked as he did. but, that's just my opinion.
ReplyDeleteI urge those involved in this gossip column to not penalize the Fool's Foundation for the idiotic actions of Eason Donner.
ReplyDeleteKeep in mind that Liz had nothing to do with the incident, and she has provided our city with a beautiful place for great art and great music.
Also remeber that Liz and Eason have a four year old child, Severin, who would be directly affected by the repercussions of economic sanctions placed on the Fool's Foundation.
engage the man you have the problem with, don't attack an art gallery.
Aaron
Hey, thanks for calling it a gossip column. You must not be a regular reader. Did you happen to notice that the entry that sparked this was a review of Zocalo and a question about upcoming shows at Fool's? Probably not.
ReplyDeleteAaron, do you consider what Eason did 'gossip'? Nilesh came on here because he's friends with many people here & told them what happened to him. Anyway, I see what you're saying but there's no need to come off like we're all just killing time gossiping. This is a real issue & there's nothing wrong with talking about it. I don't think anyone here is particularly enjoying themselves with this topic.
ReplyDeletemiller
fervor so long!
ReplyDeletePoint taken. I should have been more diplomatic when addressing this forum. I'm just upset to see the Fool's Foundatin getting nailed to a cross when Liz has put so much work into the place. I retract the words "gossip" and "column" from my previous statement.
ReplyDeleteAaron
Ed: And I kinda I brought up T of T to illustrate that Sac has long had people involved who are not white males. It is still that way, unless you discount a bunch of bands that have non-white-males playing along and the (admitted "handful" of) "minorities" that come to shows and buy the records and so on. Dunno where that shot came from, but your story about Oregon proves my point. So...if you're going to try tearing apart what I wrote, I suggest you not prove the point you're trying to negate.
ReplyDeleteI was just kinda thrown that somebody had the impression that Sac has changed much, as far as "minority" involvement in the downtown scene. Granted, I haven't been downtown since 83, but I also haven't seen a major increase in the populous of minorities at shows since I've been here. And mentioning two REALLY old bands with minorities in em seemed kinda like a stretch. There was at a time more girl based bands, but that seems to have dwindled too. Unless you count the plethora of girl fronted bands, ala: trophy.
I hate you Ed. See you at work.
I am posting here to apologize to everyone I have affected with my words the other evening. My deepest apology to Nilesh and Sandra, tho it is not enough. It saddens me so completely and deeply so as to make my stomach turn and skin crawl to think I could say things like that to someone. I am disgusted with myself. I shared Thanksgiving dinner with Nilesh and Sandra at my Aunt and Uncle's home this past year and that was the first time I met them and I was charmed to no end. Nilesh had me cracking up all through dinner about the gourds my Aunt had as center pieces among other things. I have nothing to say for myself except I was drunk. And thats no excuse. I feel silly stating "I am not a racist" because obviously I was acting like one, but that wasn't me. I don't feel that way about people. I don't feel that way about Nilesh. Nilesh I am so sorry. I want to apologize to you in person instead of here. I'm amazed at the effectiveness of the blogsphere, If I were a doubter before I am a believer now.
ReplyDeleteTo address some of the other issues brought up, although I am not satisfied with my apology until I give it personally to Nilesh and Sandra (sober), abu ghraib the musical WAS to be a play about torture and the systematic abuse of Arabs by white american GIs. It was not to paint a light picture, it was to be a gruesome portrayal of what our military is regularly engaging in around the world. It was a musical because thats what our Bush Administration is; a song and dance. I am not racist and Abu Ghraib should be proof of that, not against it. Plus its a work of art and I won't apologize for art. I simply won't present the show if its going to hurt my wife's endeavor.
The other issue is the boycotting of Fools Foundation. I fail to see the connection between my own ignorant comments at someone's private party and the gallery my wife owns and operates. She is the sole proprietor of the Fools. I help her out around the place and I enjoy it like the rest of you. She provides an incredible service to us and it would be a shame for everyone to suffer because I had to cross the line trying to accomplish god knows what I was trying to accomplish Drunk on New Year's Eve. I work for a California State agency, perhaps it would be more apt to call that a "racist organization". I'm sorry, and I fucking hate new years resolutions but my resolution for this year is going to be to spread love and tolerance because in my heart thats what I want. I'm sorry Nilesh, please contact me. eason@foolsfoundation.org
embarrassingly yours,
Eason Donner
Hi Eason -
ReplyDeleteThis is Sandra. You want Nilesh to contact you???
That's not how it works - try a little harder - his email's on his post.
I assume I will be talking to you later?
So, does this controversy still have legs after Eason himself apologized publicly and promised to apologize privately to the harmed individuals?
ReplyDeleteA rash of 18 comments--17 of which condemned such behavior--streamed into this blog in the three hours after this message was originally posted there, but now it's been nearly silent since Eason posted his apology and expressed his feelings of guilt. That seems to suggest that the community reading this blog is reasonably satisfied with the apology.
Now, a full hour after the hubbub has quieted there, we get this re-post of the original Racist Fools Foundation post at Undietacos by an anonymous "friend" of the victims of Eason's drunken behavior and ignorance.
Now it really reeks of a smear campaign against Fools Foundation by an anonymous "friend" of the aggrieved party.
I just think that that is wrong because Liz is the one person making Fools Foundation happen for the good of an art and music community that otherwise lacks a space for meeting and enjoying a variety of cool stuff.
I think drunken comments and gone-too-far race-based jokes suck, too; I don't know Nilesh and Sandra, and I don't know Eason except to say I know what he looks like and we exchanged smiles and nods once as we passed each other in the stairs leading down to FF...But as someone who was not party to this conversation that happened in the middle of the night when everyone was crocked, I'm not sympathetic to this boycott.
Having read the apology from Eason to Nilesh and the community sympathetic to Nilesh--which certainly includes me based on how I feel about drunks running their mouths (hell, ask Ben Duax about my brand of tough love)--I'm especially ready to see this issue go back to being a private affair between two individuals who had previously held each other in so much esteem that they'd enjoy a Thanksgiving dinner together, and leave the best thing to happen to Sacramento music in the last two years totally out of it.
As for the comments about the Abu Ghraib musical, I'm only pissed now that the entire plot and premise has been ruined. The element of shock is gone now. Thanks for PC attitudes effectively pre-censoring art before it's been unveiled.
I'm on both Eason's and Nilesh's side in hoping this thing gets worked out. We should all have a tolerance party at Fools where they hug and kiss, and everyone blisses out to some neo-hippie freak-folk/psych weirdness.
--Rick Ele
"I'm on both Eason's and Nilesh's side in hoping this thing gets worked out. We should all have a tolerance party at Fools where they hug and kiss, and everyone blisses out to some neo-hippie freak-folk/psych weirdness."
ReplyDeleteThis whole issue of "tolerance" really throws me. Let us not confuse "tolerance" of something that is obviously ethically and socially unacceptable with something that may appear to be different or unfamiliar.
I have been talking to Larry about this for the past hour--racism and the effects on hurt parties. Some things are hard to pin down as "racist" because of one's own background or being sheltered and not being aware of others and what is ok to say or not. As that one guy said about Dave Chappelle-type humor. But nonetheless, aside from whether something is definable or not...it all depends upon how someone reacts (as a group) or individual to such comments. Drunk or not, Easton should have known that his comments were far from being acceptable, adding race to the equation, he should have been more careful as well--especially if he (or his wife) represents a public/community center for the arts.
I am glad he appoligized, but his apology was not completely clear to explain exactly Why he made such comments and exactly Why they were wrong...and this is precisely why so many people are engaged with this incident and the repercussions of the boycott of FF.
As someone who is partially a public figure for the FF, hopefully he will come forward in a more complete way. Maybe he is not ready or cannot do this...but the potential exile that he may feel within his own community will hopefully open up his eyes to whatever prompted him to make these comments.
--Shannon Wong
This whole issue of "tolerance" really throws me. Let us not confuse "tolerance" of something that is obviously ethically and socially unacceptable with something that may appear to be different or unfamiliar.
ReplyDeleteI just wanna state that I'm definitely not confused about what to tolerate (or better yet embrace and celebrate (i.e., differences)) and not tolerate (i.e., hate, ignorance).
Maybe "tolerance party" was the wrong expression...more like a party for forgiveness and empathy.
Why does our society have such a shitty time dealing with this? I blame today's family sitcoms, where all of the situations and jokes are the same, but only the skin color of the actors is different. Everything tastes like vanilla. No courage!
It takes courage to deal with this, and it's gonna take courage for both Eason and Nilesh to move forward from this. Eason's off to a decent start with this one post, but it will take more courage. As the wronger person, he's gotta meet Nilesh at least 90% of the way there.
--RE
Hey Rick Ele,
ReplyDeleteSheesh. If you notice the TIME that Eason apologized, it was well after most people have gone home from work for the day.
90% of the internet is people bored at work. How often does Heckasac say, "so, I'm bored at work, here's some craigslist nuts"? All her gossip posts are simply rip-offed from Craigslist. Everyone knows that.
Saying stupid racist stuff isn't something that just concerns the people directly involved. It's a fucked up thing that shouldn't be ignored. What Eason does is going to reflect back on FF which is something that he has learned.
Eason says he's not a racist. Maybe he was just "sarcastically" being a racist, and I really hope he learned something.
There's someone who comments on heckasac who had a thing of sarcastically saying "nigger". He didn't understand why I kept telling him to fuckin' knock it off around me. And I'm almost the Poster Boy of lack of tact. This guy eventually figured it out, but luckily without calling some black guy a "nigger" as a joke.
As Raj explained to me this weekend, as racist as the US is in general, at least the population knows better and that it's wrong saying stuff like that.
DJ Rick,
ReplyDeleteI posted Nilesh's letter prior to learning that it was being discussed @ heckasack. I felt that it was an important thing to post for my friends.
I know that you have alot to lose as far as having a place to throw shows in the future, but this needs to be seriously discussed, before people decide whether they will keep going to your shows @ the FF.
My friends are still very hurt and angry from this incident and I think it's very insensitive of you to want to expediantly sweep the matter under the rug, for the sake of your shows.
Rudy
"Why does our society have such a shitty time dealing with this? I blame today's family sitcoms, where all of the situations and jokes are the same, but only the skin color of the actors is different. Everything tastes like vanilla. No courage!"
ReplyDeleteMaybe so...I guess I was more reacting to the idea of "tolerance" and a party before the seriousness of this was even acknowledged. It is up to Nielsh and Sandra on how they want to interact (if they ever do) with Eason again...not us.
As far as making a free-loving party out of the situation...it pretty much seemed an out of context comment to making in light of everything.
I now understand your comments about TV and not having courage to deal with this stuff...but comparing a TV show that dealt with Real issues such as racism (like All in the Family) with a real situation is a little difficult as well.
I think inquiry and discussion is a good start, which is what this blog seems to be producing.
I believe that we all Do have our own form of prejudices, it is how we deal with them and are aware of them that makes us able to interact socially without being called on stuff like this...Eason still seems to be lacking in both of these skills...hopefully he will learn after this how to be more aware in general.
This is where political correctness ends and real inquiry takes over...a discussion of forces that lie within us all or within our community.
Shannon Wong
I have to say that music shows @ Fools Foundation are not racist. I know Nilesh and Sandra are upset, but I have nothing to apoligize for. I have tried to make a beautiful place for people in this town to enjoy, not a haven for hatred against specific peoples. For this to get posted on undietacos and elsewhere is really painful and I can only hope that everyone reading this will see what the true matter is. I think it is very insensitive for the gallery to be brought into this. -Liz
ReplyDeleteLiz,
ReplyDeleteLet's just put it this way. If I was aware that an owner of a record shop was "going out with" or married to a racist ass, I simply would not buy records there anymore.
It is too bad that your lovely space got dragged into this. I enjoy going to shows there very much.
However, I will not be attending shows there anymore, until I consciously feel that this whole matter has been resolved.
Good luck to you,
"Friend of Sandra & Nilesh"
"I am glad he appoligized, but his apology was not completely clear to explain exactly Why he made such comments and exactly Why they were wrong...and this is precisely why so many people are engaged with this incident and the repercussions of the boycott of FF."
ReplyDeleteyes its too bad he hasn't explained why. i'm sure he will get the chance to do so to those he owes an explanation too.
imagine that this all gets cleared up (and yes even you people have hinted that it COULD be cleared up eventually). imagine that it maybe (i said MAYBE) even gets worked out with the offended parties. this information is all over myspace, the undietacos, etc. this is still a "tag" that will be with that business for the rest of its existence. i guess that is the price liz has to pay so that we could all know her husband is a racist. boy, i sure feel better knowing he is a racist. because he must be. i'm sure if it. and it's my business and everyone else's to know that he is. from now on i'll know better than to let my kids or friends go near him for fear he'll use a racial slur. gosh, i have the chills just thinking about it.
the next time i'm walking down the street and someone makes a crack to me about my ethnicity (this happened just last night actually) i think i'll do my best to find out who they are and expose them on the internet for the racist trash that they are. maybe they will even be connected to a large corporation such as..well, say a,t,&t!! then i could accuse the entire a,t,&t corporation of being racist and bring the whole corporation down! i only hope that i can whip up just as big a frenzy over it! so everyone will be without phones. big deal.
someone being racist is lame. being trashed all over the internet before they have a chance to explain their side of it to those that deserve an explanation is also lame. i think i would have handled the situation differently and confronted the person directly.
Nilesh and Sandra did confront the person directly, and Eason has apologized - it's just a few comments above here. If you work for a major company or the state and you're a bigot, no one cares. No one here is saying not to buy Nike because they suck.
ReplyDeleteIf you own a small business, people care in a way that is directly obvious to your bottom line. Especially if you're directly involved with a small local place for mostly local artists and their friends, then the local artists and musicians and actors will care.
If someone calls me a spic and asks my wife why she's married to a beaner like me, hell if I'll support him or his wife.
- Hey, isn't "spic" just short for Hispanic?
Why, you're right, no problem. I clearly see you didn't mean to offend me.
I want to say I am so sorry to Nilesh and Sandra for the frustration and hurt that you have gone through because of my husband's actions. He has made an attempt to contact you in private and hope this is all resolved one day.
ReplyDeleteI see the connection Eason has to Fools Foundation. It was foolish of me and I would do the same if I wasn't in this position. Fools Foundation means so much to me and I am trying so hard to make it work, to bring something worthwhile to Sacramento.
I love everyone and always have. I hope you find it in your hearts to forgive and eventually forget or at maybe to not remember it with hate and animosity. Again, I am so sorry.
With Love,
Liz
This has turned into a witchhunt. You have Liz on here begging for forgiveness when she didn't even do anything wrong. Maybe you should go after Eason's parents as well. How about his son? Lay off. Something shitty happened. You people are so sheltered. Try living outside of California if this is really the worst racism you have ever encountered. Of course that doesn't make it ok. I just mean that Sacramento must be a pretty tolerant place if something like this causes such a stir. Yeah, I am posting anonymously due to the fact that I don't want to be tried by this jury.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteThis has turned into a witchhunt. You have Liz on here begging for forgiveness when she didn't even do anything wrong. Maybe you should go after Eason's parents as well. How about his son? Lay off. Something shitty happened. You people are so sheltered. Try living outside of California if this is really the worst racism you have ever encountered. Of course that doesn't make it ok. I just mean that Sacramento must be a pretty tolerant place if something like this causes such a stir. Yeah, I am posting anonymously due to the fact that I don't want to be tried by this jury.
Your brilliant!!!
After all that has been said, this comes from your brain? Cheers, my quest for enlightenment on the human condition of pure total idiotic ignorance has been completed. My journey is over.
I don't think you want to sign your comment because it's fucking stupid. It's easy to fall back on cliched terms like witch hunt when you want to quash a discussion that you don't like. Liz isn't begging for forgiveness, she's explaining her point of view. As for saying everyone on here is sheltered, what does that even mean and who are you saying it to? You sound scornful when you call Cali a tolerant place. Do you feel cool because you're from someplace that's authentically racist? That's how it sounds. I don't want to get drawn into some back and forth fight with you (whoever you are) but this illustrates why I don't want people posting anonymously. It frees them to say irresponsible things.
ReplyDeleteNilesh, would it be too much to ask you to make a statement on here - assuming you've talked with Eason? If you'd rather not, I understand.
ReplyDeletemiller
I regret posting anonymously. My statements were misinterpreted but I should have been more articulate. Feel free to delete my comment.
ReplyDeleteAs if I'm technically savvy to know how to do that!
ReplyDeleteYour brilliant!!!
ReplyDeletemy favorite quote.
It should be noted that these comments reflect the opinions of a group of people that post on this site and NOT the sacramento community at large.
ReplyDeleteIs that a serious comment?! Because I for one speak for the entire sac community at large whenever I say something.
ReplyDeletemiller
Dag nabbit Miller, Yah beat me to it...
ReplyDeleteNo, I speak for the Sac community at large. I'm large and in charge!
ReplyDeleteYour brilliant!!!
ReplyDeleteHaving seen the above, I am afraid that the craigslist/myspace/pennysaver/tardmullet virus has infected the blog. Symptoms include, but are not limited to: neglecting to include an apostrophe when intending to use a contraction.Did the poster wish to tell another poster, "You are brilliant!!!"?
Or...
Does the above refer to a possession? If so, what is a "brilliant"? Does it need batteries? Direct sunlight? Water? Why the exclamation points?
Sincerely,
You're Pal, Ed
throwing a beer in the dudes face and slapping him i think is a direct way to get the point across about how they felt twords his comments. calling for a boycott of the dude's wife's business is misplaced anger. if this dude had a history of racist actions (to my knowledge he doesnt?) then maybe a larger action such as a boycott would have been called for.
ReplyDelete"Hey, thanks for calling it a gossip column."
ReplyDeleteNah, this doesn't look like gossip to me....
Thursday, January 27, 2005
True lust?
OK, OK I just heard from secondhand from two former employees that there was some swinging going on at the True Love. This is shocking in light of the celebration of the beauty of their love that was going on weekly in the pages of the SN&R when that place first opened. Not to mention the fact that the SN&R also lamented the closing for weeks, but gave a phony reason having to do with the landlord and a vague promise that the place might re-open. Where's their hard-hitting expose?
Speaking of swinging, some of the group sex that happened at the Sac firehouse was after the Pornstar ball that they attended. And they are admitting in today's Bee that they might not be able to fire them because it wasn't specifically against the rules. I can't believe no one has made a joke about the name of the Sac Fire Chief, Joe Cherry. How about a headline that says, "Cherry popped again for sex violations in department"
Nice reaching back a year for ammo Mr/Ms Anonymous. Also, kudos on not bothering to sign your name to it.
ReplyDeleteWeak!
It just wouldn't be a proper half year if this thing didn't get brought up, would it?
ReplyDeleteHeckasac circa 2020: "I just noticed in your archives that you said a bad thing about the True Love 15 years ago - waaaaah" - anonymous
In case you care, the original defense of the 'gossip' comment was made (at least mine) because I felt that what was being talked about wasn't gossip & the comment suggested it was. Unfortunately, it's turned in to gossip now - but Nilesh is a friend of Heckasac (at least I hope he still is!) & he's welcome to post what he wants. If people talk about it further, maybe you think that's gossip - I don't. Regardless, glad you're on top of the important issues. Sorry you're forced to read this blog.
miller
ReplyDeleteYour brilliant!!!
Having seen the above, I am afraid that the craigslist/myspace/pennysaver/tardmullet virus has infected the blog. Symptoms include, but are not limited to: neglecting to include an apostrophe when intending to use a contraction.Did the poster wish to tell another poster, "You are brilliant!!!"?
Or...
Does the above refer to a possession? If so, what is a "brilliant"? Does it need batteries? Direct sunlight? Water? Why the exclamation points?
Sincerely,
You're Pal, Ed
If you don't understand my point, then you are not so bright as well. But if this is the "ed" that I think it is, then I'll just give you a beer.
In order to prove defamation, you have to be able to prove that what was said or written about you was false. If the information is true, or if you consented to publication of the material, you will not have a case. However, you may bring an defamatory action if the comments are so reprehensible and false that they effect your reputation in the community or cast aspersions on you.
ReplyDelete-Fool
Great job you fuckin jerks!
ReplyDeleteThis is fucking pathetic. This poor guy gets his name dragged through the mud on the internet for something stupid he said. I'm sure people were offended, but you'll get over it...and when you do, this page will still be here.
ReplyDeleteChildren.
wow twelve years later and this is still in the top five search results on google for my name. A thread about two guys who I never met.
ReplyDeletejust think it wierd how high this is comming up in teh results for searchin my name, even though i never met any of these people
ReplyDelete