Man, I had a pretty crappy day yesterday because of this and I'm hoping today will be better. I was afraid of what people might write when I had left work for the day and I was thinking of taking the whole thing down when I got to work because the discussion may have run its course. But then of course that would include taking down Nilesh's original statement and what Eason wrote and what Liz wrote, which I think are good for people to read and think about on their own. I was however disappointed to see that people are posting anonymously in response to my last post. I would like to point out that the anonymous posts are usually of a significantly lower caliber than the ones attached to a name. Like I said, if you can't stand behind it, don't write it.
I know that Eason was trying to get ahold of Nilesh in person and I hope he was successful. I am not going to boycott Fool's Foundation. Before you get pissed about this remember that it's easy for someone who doesn't go there anyway to declare they are going to boycott it. I am not saying that I am satisfied with Eason's apology. That doesn't matter. It only matters if Nilesh and Sandra are satisfied. It's Liz's gallery. It's a good thing for Sac. Those who don't attend or who do who would like to fight racism could find more productive ways to do so than shutting down a small, rad independent business. I could give you an example but there are a million. That's not to say that it's OK for this gallery to support racism just because it also does good things. I don't believe that they do espouse racist views or support those who do. If you do believe that you can boycott it.
I was heartened to see that they are also open to entering into a discussion about the Abu Ghraib musical. I'm not saying it should be immediately censored (and R.E., you were pretty quick to hurl that PC term at me and others. I think that term has been leached of all meaning and that liberals should think twice before using it on each other. I'm sure we're in the same place politically), I just had some trepidation about how it would be handled. It's OK for people to discuss their feelings and thoughts about that. Is any discussion automatically censorship?
Thanks to everyone who posted who included some clue as to their identity. This was a very good exchange of ideas and concerns. I hope that this incident can now become a personal issue between Nilesh, Sandra and Footinmouth. (I named Eason that because his post reads both embarrased and contrite.) Maybe the three of them can come to a point where they can be civilized towards each other. (I wouldn't expect them to share any more holidays together, but that is none of my business.)
ReplyDeleteToo bad FF had to be dragged in, but, Liz has acknowleged that she sees why it was. I hope that she and her man and her child can take on their problems, both personal and professional with grace and style.
Apart from the sniping between The Wookie and I (and those who posted snide crap without including their names) this forum has been a good thing and some of the insights have been valuable. I especially liked things posted by Smitty, DP, Beckler (natch!) Miller, Alice and quite a few others. (rock on, Natalie! rock on Sandra!)
I am really glad Nilesh put the word out. Maybe the boycott part was ill-advised. (Not saying it was, just that it MAY have been. He was still reeling.) But, he showed a lot of faith in his friends when he shared his anger and pain. It caused me to put myself in his shoes. (If I were surrounded by people who aren't honkies and one of them treated me similarly, I do not know how I would have reacted. I know I would have been totally hurt and pissed off.)
I hope this will teach everyone as much as it has taught me.
Now, a little painful humor from Paul Mooney:
"I say 'nigger' about a hundred times a day. It keeps my teeth white."
Ed
Sound familiar?
ReplyDeletehttp://beerandrap.com/2006/01/your-coworker-is-piece-of-shit.html
I didn't see any of this until about 6 o'clock last night, so I missed the whole thing. According to Nilesh's depiction of the events, I was walking past him in the hallway just moments before it all happened, of course, I'm still guessing as I can't put a face with the name Eason, though I do know who Liz is.
ReplyDeleteI never really got to comment, because a lot of what I was thinking had already been expressed by other people, and as I was formulating my thoughts about the issue, more posts were being made.
The initial issue is appearant. But the one that matters to the rest of us aren't so much whether it was right or wrong, but to what extent it is a private issue and to what extent it is an issue for the community.
I agree, in a great part it is a private issue, but it is still an issue that effects all of us. Are we a community that is okay with the idea that people who are minorities are just going to take it on the chin more than the rest of us, and oh well that's too bad, but just don't bother me about it.
First of all, to write it off as "hey, it was just a joke, what's the big deal" is pretty obtuse. I can only see that coming from somebody who's maybe taken a few knocks here and there, but has never understood what it's like to have to live with a stigma.
I've had to deal with stuff like this myself a few times, and I know the difference between some good-(or bad)- natured hard ribbing and when you've come to the point where you are made to bear abuse, for no other reason than you are the one who is different.
I haven't had to put up with it on the sort of scale as what Nilesh was faced with on New Year's eve since I was in highschool, but it wasn't that long ago where I sat around drinking with a couple of friends and somebody who I didn't know quite so well started talking about literature, and at first it seemed like we were just talking about the satirical deconstruction of the commercialization of the "metrosexual" image. But before too long I found myself cornered into a conversation where somebody who I was sitting around having a beer with was defending some rather absurd "virtue" of traditional masculinity and almost defending anti-bohemian, sexist, and paramountly, homophobic additudes.
Luckily for me, my friends kind of stood up for me. However, I still felt like nobody really understood how serious it was to me, though, and I never really got an apology from the guy, though I did let him know that I thought what he said really sucked and that I was offended by it. I could tell that he was embarassed, though.
But my point is that to be singled out and bemeaned for something that you can't help (and having to say "can't help" is so ridiculous because why should anybody feel like they should have to "help" simply being who they are), is a more serious issue than some people seem to realize. Especially when you can't help but notice that in the crowd you hang with, you appear to be more of a minority than you would be based on how you fit into the bigger picture of the local population. It probably isn't intended to be, but it's basically like shaking a guy's hand and telling him he can sit down and have a drink, make yourself at home. I'm just going to pick on you incessantly because you're different, that's okay with you, right?
All things considered, that's first a personal appraisal of my own tale of greif, and otherwise purely academic.
I am kind of wary about how much beef Eason and Liz and FF had to bear as a result of this, at least any beef that was disproportionate to the gravity of what happened to Nilesh, because what happened stunk, and it stunk most for them, but it stunk for all of us.
In my past I've been caught with my pants down saying stupid things, and often it was evident of a fucked-up idea that I had in my head that nobody had ever challeneged before. In the end, I had to apologize and realize that it wasn't just saying what I said that was bad, it was the beleif I had, that I probably wasn't even that aware of, that was the problem.
Like Liz put it, maybe we will still remember it, but we'll all be better people and not have to feel malice towards each other over what happened in the past.
Sorry for my long response that has a lot repeated of what other people already said, but this all got to me sorta late, and I felt like I had something to add about what it's like to be in that kind of situation.
For one thing, I'm not a "visible" minority, so in a lot of ways I don't have to put up with it the way a lot of people do. But I also think that a lot of people sometimes don't take homophobia as seriously as they take racism.
Thanks to whoever posted the link below. Point blank, straight-up, amen.
ReplyDeleteEd
http://beerandrap.com/2006/01/your-coworker-is-piece-of-shit.html
Beckler, I'm super-sorry about hurling the P.C. comment at you among others. I had just read so much of other people's opinions that I forgot you had seconded the feelings of "trepidation" toward the Abu Ghraib musical.
ReplyDeleteI don't know what word I'd use to describe how I'd feel about the musical, but it would probably be something pretty similar to "trepidation."
Maltreatment of prisoners--especially when it degrades a culture (e.g. burning the Qu'ran and) and is tantamount to sexual assault--is absolutely reprehensible, and I also LOATHE musicals. Hence, some kinda feeling akin to trepidation, and that's you and me thinking more alike than differently. But something about combining two things I abhor seems awfully magnetic to me, and I was looking forward forcing myself to endure it in the hopes that it would make an impressive statement, and perhaps the audience would leave less complacent.
So, I just wanted you to know that I don't think you're the P.C. police, and I especially wanna applaud you for having this awesome blog and for giving the community a place to discuss this issue. When this problem gets resolved, you will be owed a significant part of the credit for that.
Thanks,
Rick Ele
For those of you that had the guts to jump off the proper side of the fence -- good work. There is no "yeah, but..." in these situations. Don't fucking drink if you can't handle it.
ReplyDeletePatrone
amen Patrone.
ReplyDeleteIf you think you've been defrauded by false information passed on by a computer channel, defamed, or worry about whether you can make an aggressive advertising claim, it might be worth talking to a lawyer -- remembering always that prevention is a lot cheaper, and faster, than any cure.
ReplyDelete-Fool
Somebody obviously wants us to stop talking about this subject. 10 years ago "the Fool" involved would've had his ass whipped by a car load of s.h.a.r.p.'s, no questions asked. He's lucky that he's only been "defamed" and perhaps received a good "humbling".
ReplyDeletenamaste,
DJ Dick Feelie
Please delete the last comment. Why beat a dead fish?
ReplyDeletethanks,
dj d.f.