Jeez-I totally missed that Christian Kiefer did a late comment on a post I wrote awhile ago. Here it is, in case everyone else missed it:
I know I'm a bit behind the curve on this blog but let me make a couple of quick comments. As a music fan, the "intentions" of the band are mostly irrelevant. What isn't irrelevant is what the band is actually doing. Think about it this way: If I intended to write a brilliant novel but my skills only allowed to write a mediocre novel, does that mean a reviewer should write "Gee, this novel is brilliant" because the intentions were such? God, I hope not.As for the CD Roundup: You're right it was stupid. Sometimes these things seem like good ideas when you're writing them and then later you eat shit for it. It was a dark and stormy night, indeed.Miller: Let's talk about context. I'm not sure what you mean exactly, or how I'm missing the point. What I want to be is a good, critical writer, and I'm definitely interested in what you have to say. I may not agree with your criticisms of my criticism, but I'd like to understand where you're coming from.Heckasac: I've been lurking around your blog for a while and like it very much. Hope you don't mind that I've jumped on for a moment.
This reminded me that I meant to mention how Christian had a sizable write-up on Rock The Light in the News and Review this week: http://www.newsreview.com/issues/sacto/current/clubber.asp
All the members of the band were quite pleased and said they felt he "got it". And I'm not just writing this because he gave me a compliment, I swear!
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26 comments:
Dear Christian Keifer,
In regards to your comparision of music criticism and novel writing I would like to make the following points. If a person were to review a novel they would:
1) NOT start the review with a two paragraph simile in story form.
2) Read the entire book, not just two paragraphs and pretend to know what they were talking about. A book reviewer might even enjoy reading and not just do it in once a month.
3) Do some research and avoid making ridiculous statements like "American literature got it's start in the suburbs of small towns like Reno."
4) I would think a book reviewer would understand context. When NPR or PBS does a piece on a self-published author they don't spend time talking about how professional the jacket looks. It's assumed that if you're watching a band in a coffee shop or small bar that the sound is semi-pro at best and that their look is less than magazine cover worthy.
I don't know you so don't take this personally but step down and give someone who loves and lives music a chance. Sacramento deserves more than a weekend warrior. Ok that was mean. I liked your review of Life is Bonkers.
Alec Roberts (Of The Feeling and The Nightmares)
Dear Christian Keifer,
In regards to your comparision of music criticism and novel writing I would like to make the following points. If a person were to review a novel they would:
1) NOT start the review with a two paragraph simile in story form.
2) Read the entire book, not just two paragraphs and pretend to know what they were talking about. A book reviewer might even enjoy reading and not just do it in once a month.
3) Do some research and avoid making ridiculous statements like "American literature got it's start in the suburbs of small towns like Reno."
4) I would think a book reviewer would understand context. When NPR or PBS does a piece on a self-published author they don't spend time talking about how professional the jacket looks. It's assumed that if you're watching a band in a coffee shop or small bar that the sound is semi-pro at best and that their look is less than magazine cover worthy.
I don't know you so don't take this personally but step down and give someone who loves and lives music a chance. Sacramento deserves more than a weekend warrior. Ok that was mean. I liked your review of Life is Bonkers.
Alec Roberts (Of The Feeling and The Nightmares)
PS To Beckler, Sorry about using your blog comment to rant.
Double sorry about the double post.
Hi Alec:
I'm assuming that you're angry because of what I wrote about the Feeling a couple of years back. I apologize for that (and I think I apologized to you via E-mail at the time too). I missed the context there, made the wrong assumptions, and generally fucked up.
I understand that you don't like my writing style and feel I make unresearched "riduculous statements." I'm assuming, again, that this probably has something to do with my review of the Feeling. (For those who don't remember, I made a long point about the Feeling have problems typical of a new band, and then later ate shit when I found out they weren't a new band at all. I seem to recall actually liking the band, although I think the drummer (?) was way too loud for the room or something like that. Good band, though, which hopefully was clear from the piece despite the fuck up.)
That being said, I'm not sure why you think I doing "read the entire book" as it were. I see lots of shows every week, not just one, or one set, or one song. I listen to CDs all the way through as well, so I'm not sure what you mean by that.
As for "how professional the jacket looks": When a band (any live band) performs live I'm looking at the whole package: How they play (first), how they act, what they say, how they talk. That's what reviewing live shows is all about: not only for me but generally speaking for everyone writing about live music. I try to make as few assumptions as possible about bands (although that's sometimes pretty difficult) and instead just try to get a handle on what I like or don't like about a given performance.
That said: I love music, period. It's my life and my obsession and it will continue to be so. But that doesn't mean I'm going to put my blinders on either. For me, music, like any and all art forms, is meant to be talked about, not simply consumed.
Alec, thanks for taking the time to respond.
Best wishes,
Christian
Oh, no! The local weekly publication's music critic doesn't GET me! It must be because he hates all forms of music and has no passion! It always amuses how thin-skinned musicians get when critics don't slaver all over them in print...do you single out fans at shows who aren't nodding along to the music and tell them they shouldn't be music fans? Your job is to play shows. The critic's job is to provide an honest critical assessment of the show. If thats too much for you to handle, perhaps you shouldn't leave the house. You think the local critic doesn't get you? When you go out in the real world, that shit will happen all the time! Thicken up that skin, folks. That thing that surprises me the most is how much class Christian Kiefer is showing here...most critics are reluctant to revisit past mistakes and call them mistakes.
Weeeeellllllll,
I was trying to respond to this post but kept putting my foot in my mouth. I'll think of something better to say another time.
As for the Rat Grabbin' Pics, I'll get them to you.
Still Grabbin',
Still Pissed about the Feeling Review,
Yet Happy About the RTL Review,
Waiting for The Knock Knock Article,
-heckamax
Woah!
When you post comments you get to read more comments than are published in the blog. Its gettin' hot in here folks!
Seriously, as a musician who really really really cares about what is said about the music I make, I admit that my skin is a little thin. So db, you are right. Anything that is written about my band is going to either hurt real bad (The Feeling) or feel real good (RTL).
With that said, I do think that Christian has shown class in answering his criticisms, yet I still reserve the right to call bullshit on local press if they haven't done a decent job covering local music.
Makin' Crayfish
Heckamax
Dear All,
The "ridiculous comment" I was refering to was Christian's assesment that PUNK ROCK started in suburbs like Reno. My criticisms were not based on one article that Christian Keifer has written... a good majority of them are sub-par (in my opinion). I appreciate Keifer's class, I don't think he understood my criticisms or was honest about his show watching habits but that's fine. We part ways as industry colleagues. Since that's over I'd like to say that I'm offended that DB doesn't think I have the right to critcise the critic's criticism. When did you become a Dixie Chick hating facist, DB? My job is to play shows? What the? Maybe we should get rid of the letters to the editor section of the newspaper. Critics and musicians are people alike and our skin is as thick as need be. Critics critique shows and I read the critiques and critique them. The opportunity presented itself to let Christian know that I don't dig his thing and now Christian and I are basically close friends. Of course these comments will hurt some feelings and that's great... maybe we can all hug later. I'll hug you later too D.B. I know you don't really hate the Dixie Chicks.
Alec
Alec:
Oh! Punk rock / Reno. OK. Well, I feel that historically punk rock was mostly embraced by disaffected teens living in suburban areas and smaller towns. Sure it didn't start in the 'burbs exclusively (and Reno's not a suburb of any city I can think of anyway so that's probably crap on my part too), but wouldn't you agree that suburban kids are the ones who took it and made it something distinctly American (and I'm thinking specifically of hardcore here)?
Of course, this theory is substantially fucked by Washington D.C. not being a small town or a suburb and being vastly important to punk rock due in large part to Dischord and Bad Brains.
My point being that, at least in America, punk rock bands seemed to make their mark by touring little towns and attracting kids from the 'burbs rather than by touring only big cities (like the big stadium bands of the day). Punk rock didn't exclusively start in the smaller towns, but I think American small town culture (and I mean towns like Sacramento--in opposition, that is to larger "markets" like SF and LA) is what defined it as a movement.
Interesting to think about, in any case.
You know, the worst thing about this gig is that I seldom get to go to shows I KNOW I'm going to enjoy, mostly because I've already written about those bands or they've already been covered.
Anyway, yeah I know you don't dig what I'm writing and that's all good. I'd like to know why and how as these things come up, though, as I do appreciate thoughtful criticism, particularly now that we're close personal friends. It's more useful to me if I get it close to when it comes out because I'm still thinking about what I wrote. So if something comes up that really pisses you off, I really would appreciate knowing. It's the best way I can be a better writer.
I'll hug you all too, but only if Alec, DB & I all get to dress up like the Dixie Chicks.
Best,
Christian
Heckmax:
"yet I still reserve the right to call bullshit on local press if they haven't done a decent job covering local music."
I hope you do!
Christian
Hey Heckamax,
Please don't post mean comments about me when the Knock Knock article hits the streets. If you do, it's likely that I'll start crying uncontrollably.
E.S.
Three Heckamax bands reviewed in SNR? How many years do we have to be around before we get a review? Heck, we only get listed in the grid of shows about 20% of the time. so unloved.
Main reason for this comment: Heckamax, when are we going to get get those 2 "items" from you "friend" in west sacto? I have the "hand truck" and am "free" every night til monday (as well as all of tomorrow/thursday due to it being Eric Chavez day).
Also, since its rare i can get the comments to work and i saw a Danny Offer reference early: Danny Offer owes me a wave because i waved at him as he was waiting to cross 15th at Ust yesterday. Maybe he couldnt see me because his adamantimum headphones were in the way.
-Boner from Growing Pains
-
Dear Boner from Growing Pains,
Please send me a copy of your band's CD and I'll pass it along to our arts editor. Then, email me a band photo so that I can plaster it all over the pages of SN&R. One more thing, and this is just a suggestion, if you email me (erins@newsreview.com) a list of your upcoming shows, you'll have a better shot of getting a mention. Look for a HotShow of the Bananas in the April 7th issue.
E.S.
Who is boner? I don't know what's going on in my own blog. As a cryptic aside to heckamax: i still want to get that "stuff" from you that you have in the "jar" and I will give you a ringydingy later. If you know what I mean.
Guys,
I think all of these comments are great. Hurt feelings aside, everyone is saying good things here. Everybody makes mistakes. If Chris (can I cal you Chris?) makes one and we call him on it, he'll cop to it. All of us reserve the right to be critical as long as we are being fair.
Now as far as the tone of some of the postings, I think I will quote The best movie made in the 90's, JFK.
"Mr. Garrison, would you please bottle the edge!"
We all love passion and to read clever quips, but I think all of our real intentions are to speak our minds and minimize hurting peoples feelings. It's music not war or even love.
Charles "The peoples drummer" Albright
First of all, like every good American, I fucking loooooooooooove the Dixie Chicks. I don't even know why we gotta go down that route. Second of all, I wasn't trying to say not to critique the critics...but as a former (and in my own mind, current) critic, I take umbrage with the cliche that critics have no business reviewing music if they write something you disagree with. The fact is that if you're playing shows that charge actual currency for admittance, you're in the marketplace and fair game for criticism. If you paid for a meal that you were unhappy with, wouldn't you feel justified in complaining or at least feeling disgruntled, no matter how declasse the menu? Or should you just reserve your criticism because you don't understand what the chef was trying to say with his inedible meal? I don't know the Sac music scene from Adam, but it seems complaints about local coverage have as much to do with the inherent laziness of the people in the scene as with the people covering it, perhaps typified by Alec's disgust at the thought that playing a show for money and critical exposure is a job, rather than just a thing you do you fun. Again, if the idea of playing a public show where you might be misinterpreted by people is so sickening, just play for free for your friends. Like a free meal, it's beyond criticism.
Speaking of bands beyond criticism, I was lucky enough to hear the new Rock the Light album last night, and it's a legitimate heavy rocker. If you love the Dixie Chicks, it's a must-have!
Sorry to jump in so late on this topic but those of us who work for 6.75 an hour with no benefits don't get to sail the Blogosphere much. In regards to DB's comments, he's pretty much right on. I like to think of him as the thinking man's Bill O'reilly.
Our scene hasn't gotten subsantial coverage in the local press, nor have most of the notices been to swell. But we're not starting competing magazines to show our side, we're not pushing ourselves ,we shouldn't expect others to push us. I've had beef with Christians' writing like evrybody else; but he's doing his job and we're doing ours (which in my case is to fuckin' shred).I personally love the "slacker\punk" scene we create our music in; it spawns musicians who play for the love of creation and the love of our freinds. To me these seem like lofty things to play music for(no pun intended). Whether critics get it or don't get is amusing but ultimately meaningless in regards to our music.
We shred,they write,that's cool.
xoxo DKA
Thank you Dp, although I prefer to view myself as the thinking man's Neil Cavuto.
Sorry if Boner was too cryptic for all you kode-krakers. Heckamax and I just have "a deal" going down and I didnt want to "incriminate" anyone. I also dont want anyone thinking that i like the comic Cathy (there is your hint).
-Boner from The Charles Albright Collection (now at Macys)
in formur soviet armenia all bands play same song and all where same red jumpsuit. also all critics write through an ideological prism devoid of meaning or signifigance. i love this country!
Dear Critics,
I've never, ever, ever said anything about my bands or whether or not Christian or any other music writer gets it. I was commenting on journalism... chasing a story... getting facts straight... journalistic integrity if you will. DB is not "right on," he jumped in with bullshit comments about me having a problem with being reviewed. DB wasn't "right on" to give me a lesson on "the real world." I also never used the cliche that critics have no business reviewing music if they write something I disagree with... and when did I develop a disgust for playing shows for money or critical exposure? I do it all the time. My point is DB didn't make one valid point concerning my admittedly harsh criticism. I can see why one would make the connection that I was angry on a personal level; Christian made the connection too. My true intention in making the comments were to point out that as a music lover I would like to see the quality of music writing improve. Have you ever read a good music writer DB? I don't care... never mind. This is all stupid. Last point, I'm right and everyone who disagrees is not only wrong, but a stupid idiot and I win.
Alec
PS why do we have to run the dixie chicks joke into the ground?
Hey Bros and Broettes,
First things first. Our Bathroom is getting fixed. Really. This time its true. What does this have to do with anything? Nothing. But Piss Jars are on the outs, toilets are on the ins.
Okay, ES. I'm sorry. I wont call bullshit on you. I'm sure you'll do a fabu job, and I gotta admit that its very important to me to try to get local press to notice my bands. I believe its time for our "scene" to start pushing ourselves a bit more simply because we are the best. I'll say it again. We are the best. Loft Forever! (Let the shit talking begin) As I know you like my band (or maybe you were lying -- its cool) that makes me really happy. Its also the best reason for someone to write an article (different than critique).
The "Jar" is ready beckasac. WINK WINK.
Ninja, My "friend" is in "Lake Tahoe" for the weekend so we won't be able to pick up the "video games" any time soon. I'll call you.
Good discussions all around. Everyone should hug.
-heckamax
I agree with everything that everyone said and will say in the future, without question.
Goddamnit-I wrote a funny comment and it didn't turn up but now i don't want to rewrite it because of my fear of The Dreaded Double Post (or T.D.D.P. as bloggers in the know call it)
OK, I'll try again.
Heckamax-
Thanks for letting me stick my "hand" in your "jar" and "ride" your "bathtub" last night. Best ride of my life.
TDDP? is that like the BBD? The Bigger Better Deal from everyone's favorite movie. Can anyone name the movie the BBD quote is from?
-Roger Ebert
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